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Economical Repairs - Discussion

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
Hello.

Bilbo and I are in the preliminary stages of suggesting a completely new economic system - one that doesn't involve character resets, deleting your houses or cars or even reducing the real value of your money. Using advanced economical ideas and principles. If the server truly wants a working, dynamic and accurate economic system, this proposal is the closest we could possibly get without having a 24/7 group of degree level economists constantly monitoring the game. The proposal includes tying the value of the dollar with the real dollar, introducing credit and inflation, stock exchange, corrected values and other essential macro-economical systems. While it may take a long time to implement and script (Shoutout to our scripters!) This will revolutionise the economy and make us the server to be awed at. We have identified these as essential problems within the current economy.

Problems
  • California has a GDP per capita of $56,365, San Andreas has a GDP per capita of $2.62m. The country with the highest GDP (Nominal) per Capita is Luxembourg, at $101,994. (GDP per capita was calculated using (Money in bank of Red County/Active Characters in the past month).
  • Prices for most goods are incorrect, with cars being the largest indicator of this.
  • Most active players are millionaires. While the economic system requires millionaires in order to function, we currently have an over-saturation of wealth, leading to a HUGE income disparity between new players and rich players. To over half of the playerbase, $50,000 is nothing, to the other half, $50,000 is everything.
  • There is no economics involved at all in the economy of San Andreas, money is simply spawned, printed or donated into the game, causing hyperinflation for a handful of goods that the players are interested in, and extreme devaluation in business goods, leading to nearly every IG business turning over a loss.
  • There is no reason for players to buy goods that often take up a huge amount of disposable income, there is no reason for people to buy food, to drink, to consume any goods at all, heavily disabling both legal and passive RP and causing the demand for many goods to realistically plummet, meaning they are worth MUCH less than they cost.
  • The circular flow of income is disabled. Injections in real value are minimal while leakages at real value is at economically devastating numbers. The money to buy fuel, to buy “certain” supplies and especially to buy cars and properties, amongst other things, simply disappears. The law of economics insist that money is circulated - not destroyed or created.

What we want to hear from YOU, is your ideas to fix the economy, your suggestions to the systems we have planned, and any other major issues you believe exist within the current atmosphere of the servers climate.

This is a community decision, let's hear your thoughts.
 

jameshargus

Los Santos Police Department
Possibly change prices of cars and everything to what it should be according to our economy.
Also removing donator cars from the Vpoints menu would help because that's what people do to get rich.
They donate... Get a bunch of cars and sell them.
Sure it is harder since you cant just get straight cash and it costs more, but people still do it.
 

Dignitize

Banned User
Donator
I think you're forgetting that it's just a game in the end. It's not supposed to represent real life exactly, that wouldn't be possible, We have to make adaptations in order for things to work in-game.
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
I think you're forgetting that it's just a game in the end. It's not supposed to represent real life exactly, that wouldn't be possible, We have to make adaptations in order for things to work in-game.

If it's just a game where we don't need realism, why don't we just remove all scripts apart from essentials and RP everything in /me and /do? The economy is horribly destroyed, but salvageable, not only will this make us stand out as a server, it'll also encourage SO much more RP, as businesses will have a purpose and most importantly, money will have a meaning, and it will encourage new players to join if they see that it's not Pay-To-Win and that they can actually, with a little bit of brains and connections, can make it. This will also lead to legal progression, start off as a stall until you can afford a mortgage on a shop, people will then buy their essentials from there and then you can expand to two shops, until you own a chain of stores all around Red County, without having to donate $50, or having to shoot up and rob everyone.
 

Dignitize

Banned User
Donator
I'm not even going to get into it, I know this thread will turn into a complete clusterfuck with tons of suggestions on how to "fix" the economy, Only to be moved to forum archive a week from now.
 

CanadianBacon

<strong><b><span style="color:#9E00BD;">$$$<b>
This'll allow for a lot of legal business to actually flow and be able to work properly in the economy, like he said, Pay2win will be a thing of the past if this is worked towards. A whole world of possibilities is opened along with this. Complete store chains, proper small businesses, less stat-whoring, and just general added realism.

Make MTA:RP Great again
 

Dignitize

Banned User
Donator
All people seem to suggest when "fixing the economy" is removing Pay2win, It will never be completely removed and It's completely understandable. Go ahead and remove pay2win, sure then you wont even have a server to roleplay on... Most people only donate because they get something out of it and that's what's keeping the server running. Unless one of you guys wants to pay the server bills from now on, pay2win is going nowhere.
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
I'm not even going to get into it, I know this thread will turn into a complete clusterfuck with tons of suggestions on how to "fix" the economy, Only to be moved to forum archive a week from now.

That's why only suggestions with a macro economic basis will make it to the proposal. Suggestions with absolutely zero purpose will be ignored, and the actual property and value of the players current wealth will be untouched. That is a big red line for this proposal, so suggestions that intervene with that will be rejected. Will the way money works change? Completely. Will the nominal value of money decrease? Yes, but not the real value of money. I trust that you'll leave disregardful of this proposal until it is released until the public :D
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
All people seem to suggest when "fixing the economy" is removing Pay2win, It will never be completely removed and It's completely understandable. Go ahead and remove pay2win, sure then you wont even have a server to roleplay on... Most people only donate because they get something out of it and that's what's keeping the server running. Unless one of you guys wants to pay the server bills from now on, pay2win is going nowhere.

While not completely removed, because I understand server bills will need to be paid, its effect on the macro economy will change. Under the current proposal plans, F5 will actually remain, and perks will also remain. I understand I can't fix the economy completely or force Overload not to accept in game concessions, but I know that as long as the circular flow of income is introduced, this wouldn't be a problem, I don't even think donator vehicles are a problem in the proposal.

The proposal is a proposal on making the macro-economy work, not to micro-manage the wealth of individual players.
 

Bahey

Donator
Staff member
Lead Administrator
Donator
this is nice and all but i think you're taking this too seriously
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
Going to have to ask you all to remain on topic here. Too often do I try to read through threads like this where people resort to completely disregarding the topic at hand or throwing out completely irrelevant topics.
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
this is nice and all but i think you're taking this too seriously

This has massive RP potential and could potentially reduce the amounts of mass illegal factionism and encourage people to work honestly, with the top places in the world being rewarded to those that do.
 

f6rza

penny hardaway jr
Donator
This has massive RP potential and could potentially reduce the amounts of mass illegal factionism and encourage people to work honestly, with the top places in the world being rewarded to those that do.

Aaand what's that supposed to mean? That illegal factions wouldn't be as rich as legals? If so, my boy Escobar made some serious digits illegally.
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
It's baffling to me to see people demand a fixed economy yet outright reject any proper implementation from people that have studied economics into making a system that manages to work around the current amounts of wealth in the server without removing it. Why don't you wait until the actual proposal is released to make a judgement, and instead contribute to what you would actually like to see and how you would imagine the economy in a perfect world? Wait until the draft is released to disregard the idea.
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
Aaand what's that supposed to mean? That illegal factions wouldn't be as rich as legals? If so, my boy Escobar made some serious digits illegally.

Oh, illegals could absolutely get as rich as legals, as I said, the real value of money is not changing, so it will take time for anyone that does choose legal to earn anywhere near as much as illegals do, and I await the day a character that's never held a gun has a higher net worth than Charles Stark, but it means that people that go the legal route have more of an option than working in a inactive faction and could find themselves owning their own companies or having major benefits in their legal factions.
 

CanadianBacon

<strong><b><span style="color:#9E00BD;">$$$<b>
Aaand what's that supposed to mean? That illegal factions wouldn't be as rich as legals? If so, my boy Escobar made some serious digits illegally.

Illegal factions will have to pay attention to the legal and illegal side of things in order to profit. With this, they won't just be able to sit back and not do anything at all.

They will have to work with legal businesses to profit, and from the illegal side, they'll still make usual profit, though street prices will probably come down to a realistic standpoint. This will allow for faction banking ect to have more purpose than just sitting there, too.
 

HaveADream

<b><span style="color:#b80000;"t>Ace of Spades</b>
Donator
Remove F5, simple as that.

The system works around features like F5 and implements it into the circular flow of income. Meaning even if people strongly oppose removing F5, it works in the economy.

If F5 is removed, it has nothing to do with the proposal.
 
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